Romani, Racism, and Romania

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Here’s a popular Romanian joke:

A gypsy and his neighbor set out to build their houses. They spared no expense, and they succeeded in building two identical houses, brick for brick. When they were done, they both stepped back to admire their work.

“What a great house!” the one said. “I’ll bet that I can sell it for a million dollars.”

“What a great house!” the gypsy said. “I’ll bet that I can sell mine for two million dollars.”

“What?” the neighbor said. “Our houses are identical. Why would yours sell for twice what mine sells for?”

“Easy,” the gyspy said. “I don’t live next to a gyspy.”

And here’s a true story that happened to me while I was living in Romania:

I lived outside of town and had to take a bus into work. I lived near a gypsy enclave, and my bus was often filled with people bringing their wares into town. One day the bus was very crowded (as usual), and I offered my seat to a youngish gypsy woman who looked tired and weary. She took it without a word. Then, about halfway through the trip, she started harassing me to give her money. I politely ignored her, but she became increasingly strident, offering to tell me my fortune in exchange for whatever money I was willing to give her. As she grew more insistent I grew more impatient, until the bus finally arrived downtown and I hurriedly disembarked to escape.

No luck. She followed me, pulling on my sleeve and almost physically attempting to keep me from leaving. In exasperation I stuck my hand into my pocket and pulled out the first thing that I found: a 1000 lei coin (a tiny pittance, since a loaf of bread cost 10,000 lei at the time). I tried to push it into her hand, but it slipped out and fell into the muck and snow at the edge of the bus stop. She dashed after it, then looked at me in disgust when she realized that she had dirtied her hands for such a pathetic sum.

A cop was standing nearby, and he started laughing. He winked at me in camaraderie–he naturally assumed that I had done this on purpose to humiliate the woman. Horrified and embarrassed, I fled from the bus stop and towards downtown.

I say these two things to illustrate the following points:

  • Romani (gypsies) are subjected to immense, pervasive prejudice in Romania. One simply assumes that gypsies are dirty, irresponsible, rapacious, abusive, fortune-tellers, thieves, and swindlers. Anti-Romani racism is nearly universal and almost never questioned. In this sense Romania is quite different from the US, where racism is usually covert and subtle. Romanian bias is overt, obvious, and most of all considered normal.
  • At the same time, the prejudice is not really racial. It’s cultural. Romani who adopt mainstream dress, language, and lifestyle are pretty easily integrated. My wife descends from such a family: her paternal grandparents were gypsies who settled and entered Romanian mainstream, and this heritage has had close to zero impact on her and the rest of her family. She and all of her sisters are darker-skinned than the average Romanian, but no-one cares. I knew other people who were obviously Romani, but who had no trouble integrating into normal economic life once they took up Romanian dress, religion, etc. This also contrasts with historical attitudes in the US, where one-drop rules meant that people with mixed ancestry felt the full weight of segregation.
  • Partly for this reason, official attempts to redress this situation have been entirely ineffective, from what I can see. Officially, the Romani are not țigani but romi, and public-service advertisements against racism are visible in all major cities. The result? People now tell racist jokes using the word rom instead of țigan. Progress, eh? Additionally, there’s very little political consciousness among the gypsies themselves (that I know of). This dooms any attempts to address the problem through official channels, and makes the gestures that have been undertaken seem like condescension.
  • The story of what happened to me on the bus illustrates a problem with many of the accepted narratives about why racial stereotypes exist. In this feel-good just-so story, stereotypes are a means for the privileged to keep the underclass down, and closer interaction with the oppressed shows the stereotype to be false, and so racism disappears. My experience was just the opposite. Most interactions that most people have with gypsies in Romania serve to reinforce the stereotype. Indeed, the most horrific stories of spousal and child abuse I’ve ever heard have come from my sister-in-law and her husband, who do social work in an impoverished gypsy village. Their experience working closely with the Romani has not served to create the comfortable illusion that the gypsies are “just like us” beneath their skin, but rather has deepened the impression that there are terrible dysfunctions in Romani culture and mores.
  • Since the real divide between gypsies and Romanians in Romania is cultural, some people would counsel tolerance and mutual respect. Tolerance might be possible, but it will never lead to respect, because the differences between mainstream and Romani culture are imbued with moral significance. For example, it is not uncommon for Romani women to be married in their teens, and to have a few children by the time they reach their twenties. This is combined with widespread domestic abuse and general misogyny. Is this something that should be tolerated and respected? And this is just one example that I picked as congenial to Westerners–there are many other examples of cultural differences imbued with moral significance that separate the gypsy minority from the Romanian mainstream.
  • There is a conflict between the desire to preserve and respect Romani culture and the desire to eliminate prejudice against the Romani, because the culture is largely the cause of the prejudice. Okay, we say, we’ll keep the good (or neutral) aspects of the culture and get rid of the bad ones. Keep the bright dresses and lose the child marriage. Okay, but which cultural aspects are good and which are bad? And who gets to decide? The Romani themselves, or well-meaning liberal bureaucrats in Bucharest and Brussels? I have a hunch who’s actually going to set the policies that determine the future of Romani in Romania, and I’m suspicious that it’s just another form of racism, masquerading as multiculturalism.

And yet… I don’t think that we should be complacent about the treatment of gypsies in Romania (or anywhere else). I just think that we should be realistic about the content and the causes of prejudice.

If you like this, you may be interested in A visitor’s guide to Romanian racism.

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42 thoughts on “Romani, Racism, and Romania

  1. This is, sigh, the culture that during World War II did such things to the Jews living among them that even the SS was appalled. See Arendt’s Eichmann in Jerusalem for a few of the horrible details. The only reason there’s no Antisemitism in Romania today is that there are no Jews.

  2. Heather

    I lived in Turnu Severin, RO, for two years. I was amazed at the blatent racism depicted there. I had two really good Romanian friends whom, no matter how I tried, could never see equality between themselves and the Romni.

  3. truther

    I was amazed at the racism toward Polish people when I was growing up and heard all those Polish jokes. Being part Polish I wasn’t offended than and I thought they were funny. Now I understand they were racist and hateful. Also the jokes about Germans which are also racist. I agree that racism is definitely a problem everywhere.

  4. I lived in Romania in Bucharest most of my life and the town is not so racist anymore like say 8 years ago, however, even though im not racist i have to say that a lot of the things told about gypsies are true, its not about the way they dress its what they do, i have a lot of gypsie friends who are poor and badly dressed but since they have never stolen and always talk nice they are appreciated by Romanians, but i saw “bad” gypsies and i assure u the stories are true, they are thief’s and no matter how nice you are to them they stay the same, i learnt that on my own skin several times.

    • J.S. Bangs

      Filippo:

      You make a decent point, although it’s one that has to be delicately made. There are certainly a lot of gypsies that I met in Romania who fulfilled all the negative stereotypes–these are the ones that give all gypsies a bad name. However, we still get into a kind of “soft” racism of expectations: When you meet an unknown gypsy, do you assume that they’re basically decent, or that they’re sharps out to get you? And when you get hurt by a real thief, do you assume that he’s an isolated bad apple or attribute it to the fact that he’s a gypsy? Is this different from the way that you treat other Romanians? It’s these sort of assumptions and beliefs that make for a kind of racism.

  5. truther

    It’s experience with behavior that creates prejudice. And someone who attempts to justify any crime on behalf of skin color is prejudice too. It’s the same thing. By the way, racism refers to an entire race which gypsies are not so that word is used out of context. Being part gypsy myself I can certainly attest to the behavior which I find abhorrent. It’s why I make a point of not claiming that part of my heritage. When the behavior changes, the perception will change. It should not work the other way around. .Stealing babies is one of the worst crimes a person can committ. I would kill anyone who stole my baby as it should be. I feel sorry for the victims of the crimes notthe criminals as any decent person would.

    • peter monroe

      you are not gypsy, there is a gypsy race, romanis don’t steal babies that was just a mith propagated by the church so people will not stay close to gypsy and being influenced to things like sorcery (hundreds of years ago) read history and then make judgements, gypsies were and are the most discriminated people in european history, gypsies were killed and pushed in death camps much more than the jews. gypsies were hardworking people and best at blacksmithing and had a lot of gold and wanted to integrate into society that’s why all these stories and mass killings happened to them, the rest is just european tradition

      • Omu

        Actually it’s not. The mafia in Bucharest (which so happens to be run by gypsies ) often took kids from orphanages and made them beg and/or prostitute. Many gangsters in my country were arrested by the police for that crime. You should Google it

      • Allegory

        This is true. I live in Bucharest and gypsies are mobsters. Worse than any sicilian posers or italian fools.

        Gypsies are full blown, mongolian class gangsters and cowards and rapists. They organise packs to rape white women, even in large cities.

        They do kidnap children, to sell for slavery, begging or prostitution.

        This is legally accurate, in Romania they join the police force, which is 100% corrupt. They are bought by corrupt parties who use their votes to rise to power. With enough gypsy votes, many fake parties are created. Some were even constantly elected, thanks to gypsies and other minorities with forged passports who are illegal immigrants.

        Also true about how they steal orphan children. I’ve been to an orphanage enough to know this about gypsy thieves.

        They are great thieves, and best allies of corrupt goverment and police and body guard industries. Who are criminals of organised crime.

      • Moldovanu'

        Yes, it’s true. Not only do they steal orphan children but they also eat them. What, they haven’t reported this in the racist Western media yet? Of course it’s true, because why else would my uncle’s friend, Badea Nicolae say so if it wasn’t true? Actually, the gypsies and minorities have so many forged passports that they are actually building a huge missile with all their votes and fake parties and thieving passports and eventually they will blow all the ethnic Romanians off the face of their own country, splattering all of their mamaliga and carnati and vin fiert all over the northern side of Bulgaria. And did I also mention that Bulgarians also eat Romanian orphans?

  6. Florian Petrescu

    Yeah, you really don’t get the fucking point, eh? I mean, you did a nice thing for the woman AND THEN SHE STARTED HARASSING YOU. Fucking Northwestern liberals….you’d think that marrying a Romanian would have taught you anything, but nope–you only see things through your happy rose-colored multiculti glasses. Fuck you and your entire state (well, west of the Cascades anyway :) )

  7. john

    I’ve been going to Romania for um.. nearly 6 years now. G/F is from Bucharest. A ‘large’ proportion of Romanians are borderline racist and most definitely xenophobic.

    It puzzles me to see that they strive so hard to show off that they have wealth and concerned with their image (like alot of latin cultures) but this is vanity on a different level.

    To distance themselves from that word ‘poor’.

    From what I found, they listen to western music, buy western cars and western clothes, talk
    multiple foreign languages, enjoy western food etc.. ( I could go on..) but when they see
    a foreigner (I’m from Ireland by the way) it’s like stop, point, stupid remark, oh his g/f must be a slut.

    I’ve never seen so much disrespect towards women in my life in one country, no wonder
    so many local women aren’t attracted to Romanian guys.

    Having said that I have a love / hate relationship with Bucharest :) When I’m away from it I need to get back and when I’m there I need to get away. Very interesting city. Huxley was right, “To travel is to discover that everyone is wrong about other countries”.

    • J.S. Bangs

      I have to say, I hate the city of Bucharest, and I wouldn’t consider it representative of Romania. Bucharest is kind of like New York: it’s huge and urban and very much unlike most of the rest of the country. Everyone in Bucharest looks down on everyone outside the city, and everyone outside Bucharest returns the favor.

      I’ve definitely seen a lot of what you’re referring to, though my perspective is a little bit different, since I speak the language fluently and am married to a Romanian. What I mostly observe in Romanians is a very deep sense of cultural inferiority. This is why they obsessively pursue western styles and trends on the one hand, but on the other hand feel the need to disparage foreigners. Unfortunately, I do not think that things are getting better in this regard. Joining the EU mostly just ruined the local economy and forced young Romanians to leave Romania in droves.

    • Mircea Mitrofan

      Dear John, it was good to read your thoughts on Romanians. There is truth in them. But…
      How much, if ever, have you visited other parts of Romania? I expect you would have a better perspective on Romanians if you did.
      I have never been to Ireland, but been numerous times to England and lived there a good number of years. Would you say that if one visited London they really knew England and the English.
      Although you made a number of good observations, you make so many sweeping generalizations about Romanians! Would it not be fairer to say “this is how I see the Romanians I’ve met”?
      I’e met Irish people that are very different from one another and would not say that they are all friendly or somewhat dishonest or violent or that they all are heavy drinkers etc etc. I’m sure you get my point. Best wishes! Mircea (from NE Romania)

  8. Not telling it

    OK, so I’m from Romania. I accidentally stumbled upon ur little “story” and i decided to make some points:

    First of all, gypsies are NOT Romanians…please, DO NOT call them so. They’re a nomad people who just settled here, because they found it more convenient. And in order to deceive ppl from the outside they even changed their name from gypsies, to “rromi”, so they can blend with the romanian people

    Secondly, they afford to do whatever they want, since the government offers them so much freedom, that they’re even freer than us, romanians. So yes, as u could see on the TV, newspapers, etc., our government is composed only from retarded ppl, who, ironically, we chose….sad, huh?

    About them showing off and so on, it’s because they’re a proud people. That’s a good thing, but when u mix pride with stupidity and incompetence, u get a gypsy. Therefore, they think they’re cool, rich, etc., based on the most stupid arguments. If u dont listen to “manele”(maybe some of u actually heard some, unfortunately for ur ears’ health) u are considered trash. Just because i wear long hair, and listen to things like classical music, older and even newer rock, blues, etc, they pick on me on the street making stupid jokes and things like that. If u give them any attention, u simply waste ur time. Empty words, coming from an empty head, nothing more than that.

    Another bad thing, and actually the cause for which i think u called them romani (romanians) is that they are very influential. Many romanians dont like to be treated as inferiors, so they just got attracted to “their side”. So when almost all of them look and act the same, it’s pretty hard to make a difference.

    All in all, Romania is a very unpleasant country, due to these men, corruption ( maybe u experienced it), and an empty-headed government that allows all of these to happen. Now really, interests overcome the sense of responsibility. When you obtain power, u assume some responsibilities that u shouldn’t give away so easily, at least from a moral point of view.

    And yes, i am a very racist person when it comes to gypsies, staining our name all over the world, and i want to say that i felt rather uncomfortable when i read that u mixed them with the real romanians in ur post, so i really needed to reply to it. If u ever come back here, in Romania, maybe we can talk, though i doubt u EVER wanna come back :) But being 17 i can see all the sides of this matter, even if they’re all bad sides.

    I’ll check here again, so please reply if u can, or leave me ur mail, so we can keep in touch. I’d really like that.

    • J.S. Bangs

      To clarify: there is no confusion on my part as to whether the gypsies are ethnically Romanian. They aren’t, and no one is claiming that they are.

      You seem to have been confused by my use of the word “Romani”, assuming that it means the same thing as români. However, in English, the gypsies are politely referred to as Romani, and this is equivalent to the Romanian term rromi. It does not mean that the Romani are ethnically Romanian or that they originate from Romania.

    • Allegory

      You waste time explaining this to idiot foreigners.

      They could never understand what romanians live through here, or the plague that are gypsies to white people.

      But as soon as gypsies leave romania, to France or England or America, Boom everyone of them is Suddenly Racist? Against the gypsies?

      So it’s only racism when we hate the gypsies, but it’s not when the western trashies hate them.

      I guess this goes well with the western traditions of Hypocrisy, and their double standards.

      • Moldovanu'

        Just for the record, the only things Americans know about gypsies are from Shakira songs, and for the older generation, from Cher songs. Stop thinking that Romania is even a blip on the radar. The only thing your hate for these people is affecting is your own progress. Help pull Romania into the 21st century; get off this site and go do something positive for your country.

      • Allegory

        You’re an ignorant twat pie. The gypsies used to be slaves and prisoners of war, taken by moldavian and wallachian people from the Ottoman invaders.

        The gypsies ancestors used to be proper Islamic warriors of the Sultan. That’s how they got here in the first place. Their massacre, impaling and even slavery, by conversion to “rob” status, is documented here historically.

        So the west with all their Islamophobia and fear of Muslims, is no better than hatred of gypsies, who are actually turkish and ottoman themselves, more of a threat even than the arabs who are not as dangerous, but still much more hated for no good reason by the western nobodies.

        In reality, most western folk are subhuman themselves. That’s why they are racist against white europeans, and enjoy the life of slaves like the gypsy slaves in Europe, prisoners of war from their Islamic ancestor’s incursions here.

        The gypsies also arrived here as mercenaries of the Mongols, and with the Sarmatians. Always as enemies, and pillagers, and thieves. And now they work for the islamic and soviet mafias, still. For drugs, prostitution. They are even made police faggots here in Romania. 100% corrupt, and couldn’t care less about the slightest european rights that white people have here.

        Now, enough of your delusions, you imbecile knaive. Go back to being multicultural and politically correct, with your subhuman friends. Europe is only for white races.

      • Moldovanu'

        hahahaha! Well, this guy’s comment might get pulled soon… not that I think it should, because I think free speech is important, but since I’m still awake and I don’t have any of my subhuman friends around to be politically correct with…

        Young Allegory’s angry tirade is unfortunately seems more the norm than the exception. There must have been something on the Romanian state-controlled news about gypsies working as police officers because I’ve been reading a lot of other Romanian tirades about that lately.

        Unfortunately, instead of working to combat a system that is rife with corruption, nepotism and cronyism that deprives people of million of dollars and opportunities, many people look for a scapegoat.

        PS, stop using the Russian name for Moldovans. It’s “Moldovan”, not “Moldavian”. (OK, watch everybody as he goes of on a tirade about Moldovans now… Enjoy the show!)

      • Allegory

        Wasn’t Moldava the original Phoenician name for it? It means “lands of golden grains”.

        Moldavja is a slavic pronunciation. Romania was always a slavic majority, with other languages as minorities.

        So I suppose the Moldova could be acceptable, if it’s slavic enough.

        If you worry so much about some stupid name like that, you clearly have issues. You’re using it as a scapegoat to hide the fact that gypsies are work for the foreign mafias that own all the parties in Romania.

        With exception of the jewish parties like “Romania Mare”. Owned by famous latino jew, Wadijma Tudor.

        Sorry, romania is land of jews. Very few are actual the original white people, like slavic, scythians, gothic, teutonic.

        “Not that you don’t believe in freedom of speech”. Yeah right. Tell that to idiots who actually believe you. Romania has been under jewish / gypsy / foreign occupation for too long. You are such an idiot you don’t even know what you’re on about.

        Romania never had non-white populations as “locals”. Unless you think romania is part of the Indian subcontinent, or an extension of the Uralic mountains?

        You sound very delusional, almost like you’re sent by your foreign masters to hide the facts about non-white corruption in Romania. Your pigs who pretend to be romanians, weren’t even born here, you imbecile. You came from the former USSR, former Ottoman Realm, former Austrian realm, and so forth. You receive pensions just for being good slaves and voting for whatever moron crossed you over the border, to live here on wellfare. Leaching the white folk of the peasants and workers of their livelyhood.

        Tiny little worthless pigs, such as the police f(aggots)orce, or yourself, and other partisan mercenaries and gangsters, are utter subhuman trash. You retards trace your lineage outside of Europe, yet alone well outside Romania. You’re nothing here. Just parasites who invade white european people, to control the valuable trade routes on the Danube, Black Sea and Carpathians.

        Now, enough of your propagandist lies, you worm. Your deception is pitiful, as is your subhuman intellect. All your corrupted weaklings who invaded romania, are noticeable for your low intellect. You are so stupid, you make romanian police officers look smart by comparisson.

      • Allegory

        Whatever you say, Moldov-anus.

        You and your latino pigs are subhuman. Romano-arabs were never white, or europeans. You’re not romanian at all, either.

        Latins of the I haplogroup marker, are related directly to the J line of Jewish folk, from the middle east. You were never white. You’re nothing here, in Europe. You are slaves taken by white people who were defending their lands from your dirty attacks.

        Deal with.

    • Aaron

      To “NOT TELLING IT”

      It is true that the “Gypsies” are not originally Romanian, but your post has numerous vital errors.

      To the ordinary observer, someone living in Romania and calling himself a “Romani”, it would appear “obvious” that this self-named “Romani” was claiming a Romanian native heritage. But it is not so, and is a result of an accident of word sounds. The Linguists call such a coincidence “false friends” or “false cognates .. I’m not a linguist.

      The Gypsies have been calling themselves “Romani” long before they every knew a country called “Romania” existed. They did NOT choose to settle in Romania — they were slaves held in Romania for five centuries.

      But I’m no authority. If you google “The Pariah Syndrome”, your first hit in the list should take you to a website authored by US professor Ian Hancock, supporting you view that they are, in fact, of Indian origin. And there is a lot else about them there — which you probably won’t have much interest it.

      But you’ll be interested in a book which has nothing to do with “Gypsies”, and is written by another US professor, Dr_Carl_Sagan, titled “The Demon Haunted World: Science as a candle in the dark”. It’s NOT about demons, but rather about illuminating your view of life and the world using the principles that guide scientists in their interrogation Nature, as a means to elicit vital revelations.

      But one of the most sobering things it would say to you is that ill-treatment of a society’s weakest members will inevitably lead to the most powerful in that society being ill-treated also.

  9. Clemmie Frierson

    All I have read is about Romania and the gypsy. Well, yesterday, a Romanian murdered an African American Basketball player in one of the bars. The young man suffered two heart attacks. The word out is that he wanted to dance with a Romanian girl in a bar. He should have known better. You know if you kill your own, what made him think they would not harm him. Awful, shame on all of you.

    • gogunused

      Well, the funny thing is that the murderer is not a Romanian, but a Gipsy. In fact, he has a telling nickname: “Gipsy Gypsanu”.

    • Allegory

      You can read? Imagine that !!

      If you’re so fucking literate, go to all the gypsy camps across Europe, teach them everything you know, including your bloody tolerance vomit.

      Then, after you’ve been gutted like an ignorant, arrogant piggy by the very worms you covet, it’s Romania you’ll be cursing.

      Not the actual gypsies who fucked you. Because Romania is responsable for the actions of all the gypsies, everywhere. Gypsies are subhuman, so none of you trashbags ever consider them responsable, or even try to blame them for their personal actions.

      Good job. You’ve earned yourself the honorary title of “Twat Pie”. Until you come here to Romania, and visit all the gypsy camps or their fake villages, and also live there, as a gypsy, your words means less than the filth currently occupying your skull.

      • Know something, Allegory? You have serious issues. You’re a very angry individual and it seems you are incapable of discussing anything about this subject without resorting to insulting comments, and cursing. You call people names, you call people “idiot foreigners,” etc. Just because people come from a different part of the world and don’t know what is going on in Romania doesn’t make them idiots. People don’t deserve to be called ugy names just because they have a different opinion than what yours is. Grow up and learn to participate in a discussion without resorting to curses, insults and name-calling.

      • Allegory

        How could I “know something”, if according to you I know nothing? This is why you’re schooling me with your Educated Intellectuality, is it not?

        Many people are capable of anger in their lives. How am I better than them?

        Curses aren’t “Real”. Magic doesn’t exist, you little fairy character, you.

        Insult is in the Eye of the Beholder. If someone has low enough self esteem, they may find or see Everything as an Insult upon their Royal Majesty.

        Only the Ego can perceive or understand “Insult”. I cannot be insulted, because I am a very humble person, Most Modest Individual: Me.

        Yes, many foreigners are idiots. Many romanians are Educated Stupid, by British and Soviet Jewish Spies and Journalists. It is the Jewish Scoundrels that Breed and Train most people including foreigners unfortunately, to become Class A Idiots.

        I never said people are of inferior intelligence, just because they’re from a different part of the world. Nor did I ever said Romanians are smarter in General than absolutely anyone.

        I consider both bishop Richard Williamson from England, as well as university of Moscow teacher Anatoly Fomenko, to be Intelligent, if not definite Geniuses. Do I discriminate them simply because I utterly hate Britain or Russia? Not at all, the white citizens of a region are not responsable for the crimes commited by their corrupt non’white co’nationals.

        Hell, if Romania had at least someone of great intellectual value, as Anatoly Fomenko in Russia, or Richard Williamson, this false country would be a lot better off than ever.

        People don’t deserve to be called “Ugly Names”. Dear English speaking people, learn to speak, write and spell in your own native language. Sincerely yours, the World.

        I am extremely immature. Why don’t you get used to it, instead of throwing advice like you’re the Duke of Windsor, and I’m your eager serf breathing on your every Wise Counsel and Command? Get off yer High Horse, Wench. You’re not “Lady”.

        There lies an acute difference, between Personal Opinions, which I profusely respect, and Shameless cowardly Propaganda. The Farmbred Animaloid I replied to up above, is nothing more than a dumb pirate peasant who knows Less than Nothing about Romania, or the Harsh Realities of This World. They’re just another Untermensch who loves to spout their Hebrew propaganda, casting Judgement Stones from safely behind and beyond their large, tall fences, hoping to gain some Sense of Justice and Supremacy now that they’re attacked a European Country that is actually ON CONTINENTAL EUROPE.

        And it is not Romania that you should be charging against, at full speed on your trusty Arrogance Steed, you vicious Colonial. Romania, or the Latin Empire created after the Cursed Crusade or the Fourth Crusade, here in the Balkans and modern Romania, was a Christian Crusader Kingdom, forged by None Other than West Europeans.

        The Romans of Vatican and italic peninsula, and Holy Roman Empire, the Franks and Templars of the Frankish Reich, all allies of the Bogomils and Cathars (Bulgars named by them directly), who learned all our Beautifully Racist and White Supremacist Values and Traditions from the West European Realm.

        Romania is possibly the most Westernized and Medieval Crusader Kingdom or Christian Realm, in all of Europe, or at least Central and East Europe. Instead of thanking us for keeping out the Ottoman and Tatars and Russian Hordes, who had taken over the mighty East Roman (Greek Byzantine) Empire, breaking the largest Christian Shield of South East Europe almost too easily, you accuse us for defending Europe.

        The original bulgars themselves, or the Scythian Cathars and Slavic Bogomils (white europeans of Albigensian religions or dualist Christians), saved Constantinople several times from the wicked Arab invaders, who feared the Frankish and Scythian Knights or Riders of the Bulgar Slavic Realm.

        As for the Nonexisting “Gypsies” you should educate yourself of the Black Khazars, the lowest caste of Slaves in the Jewish Khazarian Empire between Caspic and Black Seas, which invaded through the Ottoman Empire as their mercenaries, and are even mentioned by the Arabs who found them in Khazaria, as the slaves of the White Races of white khazarians and khazarians (now called Caucasians by race).

        It is because of this Jewish Identity, that the subhuman Black Khazars, who only pretend to be Gypsies, but are not from Egypt. The Egyptian race is different in Romania, they have light olive skin, large lips and round ears, big cheeks or round large faces, generally brownish hair, and have a very distinct Afrikan look, but they look nothing like the Black Khazars, who call themselves falsely “Rroma” or “Gypsy”.

        The True Gypsies are from Egypt, and are a semitic race, which is easy to identify here in Europe and Romania. But the True Jews are from Khazaria, and now hang around fake soviet villages, pretending to be “Rromas” and “Gypsies”, to hide their Jewish identity of Khazarian slaves of Asia.

        This is why those Black Khazar Jews are Pedophiles, who consider 13 year old girls “old, and grandmas not worth marrying anymore”, because in the Talmud of the Amerikan Jews, Pedophilia is allowed for any girl older than 3 years old. And the Synagogue of the Jews is the same as the “Satra” of the “Rroma” (black khazars of asia). Their gold thieving and gold digging obsessions are identical to that of the Amerikanische Hebrews, and Juifs of Bretagne.

        Their Nomadic and Antichristian history, NAY TRADITIONS, Are Purely Talmudic and Jewish in manifestation and fanatic Zeal. They are JEWS, protected by the British and Amerikan JEWS, in order to corrupt the White European Christian Reichs.

        Who know The Latin Empire of Romania in the 13th Century Europe, the direct ancestor of the Romania of present, is a true Crusader Empire, destined to free White Europe from it’s Ishmaelites and Edomites, and other non’whites who seek to destroy or subdue European Civilization and Purity or Integrity of the Chosen White Races of PreChristianity.

        Though I appreciate your constructive criticism, I must insist that you first investigate the Full Underlying factors of the Discussion itself. I should not have deigned that subhuman mongrel with an answer in the first place, True. But they were the ones who attacked Romania.

        And for What? Some Moor died in a bar? Who cares? Moors die all the time in Afrika, Famine, Disease, Rape, Murder, Civil Wars, Communism, War Trade supported by the subhumans of Amerika, Britain, Russia, and other “Allies” who profit from drug and weapons traffik, and black market Navy Trade.

        Yes, I have very poor manners. But what kind of idiot tries to a defend a black skinnd Moor who died in Romania in the first place? Romania is too close to the Heartland of White Europe, to have any Coloures in the first place.

        Coloured people simply never belonged in Europe. Especially so damn close to it’s center here of the Danube’s Mesopotamian plain of Pannonia, and Carpathian Mountains. This is Sacred Land, it cannot be invaded or inhabited by non Arians who lack Palour of European Ancestries.

        Europeans know this to be true. This is why just last century, the Nazi Christians of Romania’s Leading Party, who made Romania the first and only Nazi Country in the World, after it’s 1918 Unification and Independence, aided the Fascists and Nationalists of other European Realms, in deporting the non Arische invaders and Metlische pigs, who were castrated, and separated in Deportation and Reeducation camps by the Wise Researchers and Scientists of Nazi Germany. Brilliant Innovateurs such as Himmler, Brave Crusaders such as Adolf Hitler, Martyrs such as Reinhard Heidrich. Who risked their lives and eventually died, so that you any many other Ungrateful Brats can run your mouths about matters you know nothing about.

        May they Rest in Peace …

  10. Blimey,

    Allegory

    That was an impressive tirade mate.
    I do not know how old you are and where you’ve learned your English from (Or better said where you’ve been trained… I’ve learned my English while i was in the service) but nevertheless kudos to you..
    I can tell you something.. your level of fluency is amazing …

    To be honest i don’t think there are many native English speakers that could actually follow you..

    If I were to make an assumption, I would assume that you have received diplomatic services operational officer training or assuming you are a civvie you are one of them ex Olympics.

    Never-mind, greetings from a recce gorilla :)

  11. stefan

    Racism ? In romania? never !!! it is all about the choices everyone takes. I never saw a gipsy being agressed. I would rather say gipsies are racists. Indeed there is a lot of disgust regarding them but we are not born with this feeling, we just “gain” it by experience :)))

  12. KD

    These comments are… interesting, to say the least.
    In regards to Gypsies, at least in my research, a sad reality is that many of them are proud of their culturally-inherited activities (stealing, begging, and their lifestyle in general). When given the opportunity to make a better life for themselves, many actually choose to continue on with their meager existence. There are two unfortunate conclusions I’ve come to regarding this:
    1. Romanians are cognizant of being constantly associated with Gypsies, especially amongst Europeans (most Americans couldn’t even tell you what language Romanians speak, let alone their view on Gypsy culture, and I am telling you this as an American). I think subconsciously this plays into their writhing hatred for Gypsies AND their need to up-talk many things Romanian. I think I would feel the same way in that position.
    2. There ARE Gypsies out there that don’t want to remain impoverished criminals but when they enter schools, even elementary schools, they soon regret even giving it a chance due to their treatment. This is a reason why Gypsies on other continents are still caravaners but not necessarily criminals.

    My point in this all is that both Gypsies and those that hate Gypsies are directly to blame for things still being the way they are.

  13. Kirstin

    JS Bangs, I’ve been reading your blog (your Romanian entries) for about an hour now instead of working as I was supposed to. You’re an excellent writer and observer, and I’m so glad to have stumbled across your blog! I’ve never lived in Romania (have visited three times for a cumulative 1.5 months), but everything you write tracks with my experience. It’s so disorienting to hear my open-minded, wouldn’t-harm-a-fly brother-in-law say such disparaging things – and he’ll repeat them in English just to make sure I’ve understood! (Ostensibly because he doesn’t want me to become a Roma theft victim.)

    You made a comment in other entry about Romanian attitudes toward non-whites not being as racist as homegrown attitudes (that the language might be racist but the underlying sentiment was not). I understand what you’re saying and I agree that there’s a certain innocence to Romanian curiosity about non-white people, but…I don’t think they’re as free of attitudes of superiority as you think they are. And even if I’m wrong (but consider this: you live in the midwest. I live in a majority black town in the South, and my MIL is very uncomfortable around African Americans here, to the point of not even wanting to drive through certain parts of town.), the Romanians I know have little experience with bridging cultural divides and seem to see little need to try. They just have a fundamentally different attitude toward ethnic ghettoization than we have. We might in practice stink at bridging our domestic cultural divides, but we do see it as a goal. They really don’t. (Granted, ethnic Hungarians seem to share the exact same attitude, “We’ll do it our way, you do it yours, and unity isn’t expected or even particularly desirable.”) It is a different way of looking at things.

    • J.S. Bangs

      This is a really good observation of an important difference. Americans hold to an ideal of unity and uniformity that strives to ultimately make differences of race or class unimportant. Romanians are much more likely to think of those differences as a given, and simply wish to leave each other alone. Honestly I think that the Romanian ideal is often better, or at least more realistic.

    • Have you ever tried to visit and look into Banat, western region, history? Things used to be much different there, with bridging between cultures, mainly because there wasn’t a majority of any ethnic group in the late 18th century, when the Austrian reconquered the region.
      I will really have to write those articles I planned for on this matter.

  14. Arroma

    I don’t know if anyone is checking this thread any longer but since I’ve spent quite a bit of my time reading the articles and most of the comments here is my 2 cents. I am Romanian and lived in NA for the last 18 years. Calling Romanians racist IS racist. Not saying that many of them aren’t. But so are the majority of people everywhere. But not all. Making a generalization about a people is racist.
    Secondly; yes, Romania failed miserably at integrating the Romas in their society. Interestingly enough, Ceausescu tried, but with a wrong approach, negating their identity and traditions. Romania has been criticised internationally for the perceived human rights abuses and discrimination. Romas went West either to escape the abuse of to look for better opportunities or both. So did refugees from war zones across Europe, North Africa or Near East. Yet, I am not aware of the French, German or Italian goverments deporting back to their country of origin Bosnians, Algerians, Vietnamese, Sudanese or Syrians. But nobody wants the Romas. They’ve encountered in the West just as much if not more animosity and discrimination than back home. Makes you think that either they were just as bad as Romanians portray them to be or that Romanians are not much worse than French, Germans an Italians when it comes to racism. Problem with Romanians is that the majority, along with their leadership are not too bright, which is easily observed throughout their history. The westerners were able to spin it and guilt Romania into a situation that’s convenient for them: resolve the Roma problem on your own before you join us, because we don’t want your Romas, and we’ll call you racist because our mass media is in English and therefore we have credibility! Blatant hypocrisy.

  15. As far as known, historical information says that the Gypsies were a population coming from either India or Egypt (or both, predominantly from the first though). There is a claim that they might have been a renegade tribe. Anyway, as Nomads, they had to be, to a degree, opportunistic, not to say that they were slaves in Europe, many of them. These facts might explain part of their culture, as well as the fact that by not having a home country, they clang to their culture as the sole thing that gave them an identity.

    I know quite some Gypsy people back in my parents village and the area which are not at all discriminated. My parents have been godfathers for a young family, we have a Gypsy foster brother (unlike the US, foster kids in Romania tend to live with their foster families until they get a prospect of adoption or until they reach adult age, if the foster parents keep their qualification and pass the tests). So I would say that, indeed, Gypsy people who mingle in are not really discriminated against.
    The joke you started with, I have never heard it. But I know lots of other jokes, which are more affectionate and friendly, just like Romanians from different regions make fun of each other.

    Years ago, when I was a teacher, me and my colleagues (great people) talked about what were we to do about these cultural differences. Many times, if neighbours call the police when a Gypsy woman is abused (beaten, and she screams the hell out), and the police gets there, the woman would shout at them and cry and curse them for taking her husband or sort. As I’ve heard, a Gypsy man must educate his wife with a good beating sometimes.
    No matter of the cultural background, I think such things as abuse and violence should be discouraged through education. Society can’t accept it as being part of a cultural group, unless that group is somehow segregated and so the message is clear: it’s an unsocial behaviour, not acceptable for the majority of people.

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